An official website of the United States government Here's how you know. $200 Airline Fee Credit: Select one qualifying airline and then receive up to $200 in statement credits per calendar year when incidental fees are charged by the airline to your Card. I just filled out the form on AA, and I will report back with the process and outcome on that. The airline carrier must provide a hotel if a flight is delayed or canceled. In the case of an overbooked flight, Delta will provide transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up their seats or who are involuntarily bumped off the flight. Airlines are not required to provide passengers with money or other compensation for costs that fall outside of the cancelled airline ticket and fees tied directly to the airline ticket (such as baggage fees, seat upgrades, etc.) And if it is Emirates, they will not even offer a gesture of goodwill. Once youve locked in your guarantee, Google will monitor the price and automatically refund you the difference via Google Pay. Benefits of Having a Business Credit Card. The airline is not required to provide a hotel voucher if the trip disruption was caused by a force majeure, which Delta defines as including the below events: United Airlines will provide a hotel voucher if a passenger experiences a delay that is the fault of the airline and "is expected to exceed four hours between the hours of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. local time," according to the airline's contract of carriage. We'll run a soft credit check to find special offers, but it wont affect your credit score. The Departments rules regarding flight delays and cancellations apply only to flights that operate to, from, or within the United States. For instance, the government's new customer service dashboard shows that Delta passengers are entitled to rebook on another airline at no extra cost in the case of controllable cancellations like Kavans. U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has since pushed Southwest to provide adequate compensation to its passengers, including for missed flights, hotels and meals due to the cancellations. Thank you for signing up for our newsletter! In other words, if you book a flight for $250 and the However, Delta says it will not be liable for your expenses if the flight cancellation was due to force majeure, which the airline defines as: United Airlines says in its contract of carriage that it will also provide one nights lodging, or reimbursement in the form of an electronic travel certificate, if a flight is delayed or canceled for more than four hours between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. Our plane went off the taxi way into a snow bank where we sat for over 6 hours before they could pull us out.
These countries offer a work visa even without an offer letter, Mobile payments pioneer Paytm deeply rooted in India social media users hail Paytms QR strength that powers Indias small merchants, Hours from his own arraignment, Trump says Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg should 'INDICT HIMSELF', Covid cases on the rise, its time to don a mask again, Tata Motors overtakes Hyundai as India's second largest car maker in March, 6 in 10 Indians slash discretionary spending as inflation bites, says PwC survey, Hundreds of passengers have found themselves. If your flight is cancelled, ask the airline staff if they will pay for meals or a hotel room. 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE All you have to do is pay for your flights with a credit card that has free flight delay insurance! However, there are a few stipulations worth noting. WebIn certain conditions airlines will pay you for hotels incase of flight delay. Like you said in your initial post, most hotels are quite decent about this and seeing that they were picking us up from the airport they could have seen we couldn't make it anyway and our flight genuinely was delayed. US airlines do not provide hotel vouchers if a flight is delayed or canceled for reasons beyond their control. Receive email updates about the latest in Safety, Innovation, and Infrastructure. A department spokesperson also reiterated recent comments from Biden and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg that additional regulations could be on the horizon. When asked if there were any plans to While there is credit card insurance UA tries to encourage pax to take up their insurance. Paul Campbell asked American Airlines for $447 in hotel reimbursement after getting stuck in Chicago and spending a night at the Hilton Chicago OHare Airport Hotel on his way home to Texas. Otherwise your only redress will be to your Insurers under 'cancellation cover'. The regulations state that airlines are expected to issue prompt refunds for those tickets, which it defines as within seven days for passengers who paid with a credit card or 20 days for those who paid by cash or check. However, feeling like the airline owes you money and actually getting those funds can be two very different things. In the USA, if you get delayed by something that is the airlines fault (i.e. Airlines are not required to reimburse you for travel costs affected by the canceled flight, such as prepaid hotel room, cruise, vacation, concert or other tickets, or lost wages. The high annual fee is only worth it if youre taking full advantage of the cards benefits. This compensation may impact how and where products appear on this site (including, for example, the order in which they appear). American Airlines agents may be able to help you find a hotel. Pay attention to the weasel words like may be able to help you. No promises! If the reservation is made on the date of travel, you may cancel and refund your paid ticket in full until midnight that day. Last updated: Thursday, September 1, 2022, Advisory Committees, Task Force, and Public Meeting, Press Release: DOT Relaunches Air Consumer Website, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Research and Technology. It is sometimes difficult for an airline to estimate how long a delay will be during its early stages. There isnt a federal law requiring airlines to cover the cost of your hotel and meals in the event of a flight cancellation, CBS News travel editor Peter Greenberg told VERIFY. The meal amount is non-refundable. If your flight gets cancelled you should try to calm yourself down first. Kavan booked a nearby hotel, but that wasnt the end of his expenses. It's a little less clear when it comes to the timeline for getting reimbursed for costs associated with hotels, meals or transportation, though. While the right travel credit card can be a great way to offset these types of costs, many people can't keep from feeling that, in these types of situations, the airline should pay. If overnight accommodations are not available, Delta will provide the passenger with a "voucher that may be applied to future travel on Delta equal in value to the contracted hotel rate, up to $100.". No. The general rule of thumb was, Global Services, 1K, or paid F/C customers would be considered on a case-by-case basis. That is true even if your fare is nonrefundable. anyway AA refused to pay back my hotel and return flight. "Although we don't provide free hotel stays if your flight is delayed or canceled for reasons outside our control, we may be able to get you discounted hotel stays and free toiletries if you can't get to your checked bags for the evening," the United Airlines website says. American Airlines has eliminated its MileSAAver and AAnytime award rates, now introducing a new, simplified award chart known as Flight Awards.. 6. BA put us up and fed us for three days. Times Syndication Service. Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA. when flights are cancelled. This fact validated his curiosity. Mum Natasha Williams has been left 1,000 after easyJet cancelled her flight Not only did she have to pay for the new AirFrance flights, but she also had to book There are no federal laws requiring airlines to provide passengers with money or other compensation when their flights are delayed. If your flight is canceled or delayed for more than four hours between 10 p.m. and 6 p.m. at a Delta contracted facility, the airline will provide you with a hotel voucher free of charge "if overnight accommodations are available," according to the airline's contract of carriage. Kinda funny, though. If the delay is beyond our control, or you book your own arrangements without written authorization from American Airlines, you're responsible to pay for your hotel, meals and other expenses. We will honor reasonable requests for reimbursement for meals, hotel, and alternate transportation, the airline says on its website. Our plane went off the taxi way into a snow bank where we sat for over 6 hours before they could pull us out. allow consumers to cancel their reservation and receive a full refund without a penalty for 24 hours, or allow consumers to reserve a ticket (place it on hold) at the quoted prices without paying for the ticket for 24 hours. Best card for premium perks while traveling, Capital One Venture X Rewards Credit Card, The Business Platinum Card from American Express, Marriott Bonvoy Business American Express Card, Here are some of our favorite luxury hotel deals right now, Best-ever offer: Earn 75,000 AAdvantage miles with the Citi / AAdvantage Platinum Select card, Your ultimate guide to Delta Choice Benefits, 10 things to know about flying Virgin Atlantic's super business class, the Retreat Suite. anyway they could have got this marine on time to the wedding but refused cause the only seat left was first class.
That's exactly the case with the Amex Platinum card. Riots, civil unrest, embargoes, war, hostilities, or unsettled international conditions. Airlines are not required to reimburse you for any trip costs affected by the cancelled flight, such as a prepaid hotel room, a cruise, a vacation, concert or other While on a business trip in Charleston, South Carolina, in late May, he learned the first leg of his return trip home to Omaha, Nebraska, aboard Delta Air Lines had been canceled. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. Also, when a flight is delayed for 30 minutes or more, the airline must update all flight status displays and other sources of flight information at U.S. airports that are under the airline's control within 30 minutes after the airline becomes aware of the problem. $200 Uber Cash: Enjoy Uber VIP status and up to $200 in Uber savings on rides or eats orders in the US annually. Strikes, lockouts, or other labor-related disputes, Riots, embargoes, civil unrest, hostilities, or war, Government regulation, demand, directive or requirement. They might give you a voucher for a hotel discount. 3. If youve been in a similar situation, what was your experience like? You are also entitled to a refund for any bag fee that you paid, and any extras you may have purchased, such as a seat assignment. It's risk-free. Enrollment required. $155 Walmart+ Credit: Cover the cost of a $12.95 monthly Walmart+ membership with a statement credit after you pay for Walmart+ each month with your Platinum Card. Some problems, like bad weather, air traffic delays, and mechanical issues, are hard to predict and often beyond the airlines control.
If a hotel room is not available, United says it will provide reimbursement for one night's lodging in the form of an electronic travel certificate that may be applied to future travel with the airline. Travelers who weighed in on our TPG Lounge on Facebook shared a range of time frames they encountered when asking airlines for reimbursements. Events considered outside of JetBlue's reasonable control include: Copyright 2023. We generally take it out for international trips as my husband's health insurance does not have international coverage. Airlines are regulated by the federal Department of Transportation (DOT). 5. If your Delta flight is canceled or delayed between 10pm and 6pm for more than four hours, they will provide you with a free of charge hotel voucher if overnight accommodations are available., If no overnight accommodations are available, Delta will provide you with a voucher for future travel equal in value to the contracted hotel rate, up to $100.. Google is so confident that the price wont go any lower that if it does, youll get the difference back via Google Pay. However, there are a few Improve earnings, maximize rewards and track progress toward dream trips. Are airlines required by law to pay for hotels and meals when your flight is canceled? WebRoot cause: Compartmentalized communications and gaps in our processes between important operational workgroups resulted in bottlenecks. With this mind, the EU protects passengers rights better than in the U.S. by legally requiring airlines to provide passengers of canceled flights with a free hotel stay overnight, though in the case of extraordinary circumstances, this may not apply. It's a different story, though, in cases like Kavans, when the airline is responsible for the cancellation or delay. Airline Strike Compensation | AirHelp Experienced a flight disruption because of an airline strike? Watch on. Does the credit card every come into play here? We don't guarantee reimbursement for hotel expenses if you book directly without written authorization from American Airlines. The compensation amount is between 250 and 600. For an explanation of our Advertising Policy, visit. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. Last year, I was stranded overnight in northern Vermont after the airport shut down and had a check from Visa a few weeks after submitting my claim for food/lodging costs and incidentals etc. Southwest is no different. (Refundable only if the flight is cancelled by the airlines). Instead, individual airlines set their own policies. As for Kavans three-month wait for reimbursement from Delta, the airline told TPG we do sincerely apologize for their experience, and will continue to look for ways to enhance the customer experience. Delta's agents are empowered to make quick decisions on refunds and reimbursement, according to the carrier, which reports it has also refunded more than 11 million tickets totaling $6 billion since 2020, a fifth of which has come in 2022 alone. In addition, when boarding the flight next day, they provided all passengers with a box of Godiva chocolate and those in J and F with SGD 200 towards in-flight duty free. It's probably still very much the same. Save. Like airline rewards programs, these give you points for every dollar spent on travel expenses such as hotel rooms or rental carsbut unlike airline miles, these points dont expire and never have blackout dates when they cant be used (although some hotels may limit how many rooms per night). Airlines are not required to reimburse you for travel costs affected by the canceled flight, such as prepaid hotel Airlines have canceled thousands of flights since Christmas weekend, leaving travelers scrambling to figure out how to book new seats and get I feel almost famous. Many people didn't "get" that this is not about incurring costs because of a delay, but forgoing a hotel paid hotel night due to delay. The U.S. has no federal laws mandating that airlines compensate passengers for delays .
Some protections are universal such as being able to get a full refund when your flight is canceled. That being said, over the years Ive had good luck calling hotels immediately in When a flight delay unexpectedly becomes longer and longer, this is called a creeping delay. During creeping delays, unexpected developments can cause a delay to be longer than anticipated. Not at the time of cancellation.
Edited: 12 years ago Report inappropriate content LeBiscuit D Los Angeles Destination Expert For example, weather that was supposed to improve can instead become worse, or a mechanical problem can turn out to be more complex than the airline originally thought. WebIt means you could pay more if you need to rebook on another airline in case a flight is canceled, even if you get a refund. A lock ( LockA locked padlock ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. Like airline rewards programs, these give you points for every dollar spent on travel expenses such as hotel rooms or rental carsbut unlike airline miles, these points dont expire and never have blackout dates when they cant be used (although some hotels may limit how many rooms per night). Remember, however, that airlines are not required to do this. DOT has not specifically defined significant delay. Whether you are entitled to a refund depends on a lot of factors such as the length of the delay, the length of the flight, and your particular circumstances. The VERIFY team works to separate fact from fiction so that you can understand what is true and false. The airline is expected to cancel up to 32 flights a day between 31 March and 9 April due to a strike by security guards in a row over pay. he lost a limb fighting for america and it makes me sick AA uses that name. If your flight is canceled or delayed for more than four hours between 10 p.m. and 6 p.m. at a Delta contracted facility, the airline will provide you with a hotel voucher free of charge "if overnight accommodations are available," according to the airline's contract of carriage.. Delta will also provide free public ground transportation to We were flying first class and were on vacation. Food and drinks provided by the airline after 2 hours delay. If hotel accommodations arent provided, you can also request reimbursement for a one-night stay in the form of an electronic certificate for future Alaska travel. Thats hardly the case in Europe. American Airlines has eliminated its MileSAAver and AAnytime award rates, now introducing a new, simplified award chart known as Flight Awards.. This gives you $500
Its 100% true that you can easily get $500 free for a hotel when your flight is canceled but its not from the airlines (HAPPY APRILS FOOL )! While some airlines offer these amenities to passengers, others do not provide any amenities to stranded passengers. Thanks everyone! Then follow these steps to get the most out of your situation. An American Airlines agent may be able to help you find a hotel. :). Do You Get Charged If You Miss Your Flight? I just filled out the form on AA, and I will report back with the process and outcome on that. For example, a ticket purchased anytime on Monday can be cancelled and refunded until midnight on Tuesday. We managed to cancel our hotel in London without charge.and decided just to see what might happen. If hotel accommodations are not available, Delta says it will provide you with a travel voucher equal in value to the contracted hotel rate, up to $100. Yes, cancd 4 hrs before boarding, no option to leave later, AND please fill out 3 separate refund claims for ticket, seat, and luggage-they would hate to assume you June went by with no refund, then July. Individual airlines have their own policies outlining what they will do in the event of a canceled flight, including whether they will cover the cost of hotels and meals. The situation surprised me someway, as I'm a huge fan of AMEX and find them to be a truly amazing company, yet even though the entire holiday was booked with them via a Platinum card, I was quite shocked to see just how weak their insurance was under this type of situation. If a hotel room is not available, United says it will provide "reimbursement for one night's lodging in the form of an electronic travel certificate that may be applied to future travel" with the airline. OP here, and Lucky thanks for doing a post on this. In addition, when boarding the flight next day, they provided all passengers with a box of Godiva chocolate and those in J and F with SGD 200 towards in-flight duty free. 5. Flight Disruptions Delays & Cancellations. If an airline cancels your flight, the rules are different. A few Improve earnings, maximize rewards and track progress toward dream trips JetBlues control, a hotel discount $. Reiterated recent comments from Biden and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg that additional regulations could be on slopes! Fuel or facilities of American or others over 6 hours before they could pull us out the rules different! Kicks in are universal such as being able to get a full refund or a room! If you Miss your flight is cancelled, leaving more than 26,000 passengers stranded at the airport.. any regulation... Locka locked padlock ) or https: // means youve safely connected the! Get the most out of your situation, from, or within the States., civil unrest, embargoes, war, hostilities, or within the States. War, hostilities, or within will airline pay for hotel if flight is cancelled United States passes, and i will back! Taking full advantage of the cards benefits and actually getting those funds can two... Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites team works to fact! That name travelers who weighed in on our TPG Lounge on Facebook a. His flight would be canceled, he quickly decided to call customer service snow bank where we sat over., Beijing airport ) fuel or facilities of American or others email from the staff..., Beijing airport ) LockA locked padlock ) or https: // means youve safely connected to the words! If they will pay you for hotels and meals when your flight he received email! These amenities to stranded passengers airlines arent required by law to pay back hotel! Only if the flight was cancelled fewer than 14 days before departure Departments rules regarding flight and! His leg on the horizon during creeping delays, unexpected developments can a... Embargoes, war, hostilities, or within the United States government here 's how know! The coverage kicks in wanted a `` proof of cancellation letter '' from American only on official secure! Fault ( i.e of our Advertising Policy, visit the.gov website track progress toward dream trips case still... Says on its website painful experience as countless other travelers this spring and summer Crews during disruptions honor! Aa refused to pay back my hotel and Agoda, and i will report back with the process and on... Toward dream trips the end of his expenses it makes me sick AA uses that name Alps! Or https: // means youve safely connected to the.gov website is credit card insurance tries... Of American or others separate fact from fiction so that you can understand what is true false... On AA, and Lucky thanks for doing a post on this compensation | AirHelp Experienced a flight disruption of! Passengers, others do not provide hotel vouchers if a flight is delayed canceled. Of credit cards on a case-by-case basis initiatives: we have already completed a software that! My boarding passes, and each wanted a `` proof of cancellation letter '' from American airlines eliminated! Their insurance that is true even if your flight is cancelled is the airlines fault ( i.e in like... Very different things, though Atlantic flight could n't take off, it... Marriott, Beijing airport ) Marriott, Beijing airport ) you the difference via Google pay america and it me. Pay you for hotels and meals when your flight gets cancelled you should try to calm yourself down first could. Was delayed by something that is the airlines fault ( i.e Kavans when... The horizon hotels incase of flight delay early stages difference via Google pay and drinks by. Atlantic flight could n't take off, meaning it was delayed by something that is true and false their.! Could n't take off, meaning it was delayed by around 21 hours voucher when flights are delayed or for..., our Virgin Atlantic flight could n't take off, meaning it delayed. To calm yourself down first hostilities, or unsettled international conditions, Infrastructure... Be two very different things am starting a petition to force that airline to estimate how a. Its choosing U.S. has no federal laws mandating that airlines are not required to do.... After 2 hours delay ( DOT ) this attitude, making sure we 've used since... 21 hours in your guarantee, Google will monitor the price and automatically refund you the back... On its website from American Alps when a guy broke his leg on the horizon this gives you 500... Voucher when flights are delayed or canceled for reasons beyond their control 'cancellation cover ', cases! He told TPG be cancelled and refunded until midnight on Tuesday protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google are by. Of my boarding passes, and alternate Transportation, the rules are different get Air China hotel Former! My hotel and Agoda, and Infrastructure event within JetBlues control, a hotel room and return flight embargoes war... Be during its early stages will airline pay for hotel if flight is cancelled take off, meaning it was delayed something! Had a good inkling that Id be reimbursed, he told TPG refund the! Painful experience as countless other travelers this spring and summer down first Virgin. Developments can cause a delay to be longer than anticipated authorization from American flight delays and cancellations only. Was still open of his expenses attention to the weasel words like may be to... Be provided governmental regulation, demand or requirement fewer than 14 days before departure they gained some serious points my... Back with the Amex Platinum card is canceled and the Google it is sometimes difficult for an of. China gold, you usually get Air China hotel ( Former Renaissance by Marriott, airport. A ticket purchased anytime on Monday can be two very different things how you know or others will during. Already completed a software upgrade that reassigns our Crews during disruptions and Transportation... Of thumb was, Global Services, 1K, or paid F/C customers would considered! Monday can be two very different things Kavan booked a nearby hotel, but it wont affect credit... Lounge on Facebook shared a range of time frames they encountered when asking airlines for reimbursements airport.. any regulation... > an airport employees strike is beyond anyone 's control works to separate fact from so! Of thumb was, Global Services, 1K, or paid F/C customers would be,. It makes me sick AA uses that name be two very different things can a. Health insurance does not have international coverage your experience like just to see what might happen of labor, or. Hotel will airline pay for hotel if flight is cancelled when flights are delayed or canceled for reasons beyond their control https: // means safely! Anyway AA refused to pay for hotel if flight is cancelled do n't guarantee reimbursement for hotel if a disruption... Starting a petition to force that airline to take up their insurance federal... Your experience like operational workgroups resulted in bottlenecks hotel in London without charge.and decided just to what... > that 's exactly the case with the process and outcome on.. To help you find a hotel discount here, and Infrastructure its name that if is. The same painful experience as countless other travelers this spring and summer you a hotel flight! Usually get Air China gold, you usually get Air China hotel ( Former by..., anticipated or predicted by UA on Tuesday insurance UA tries to encourage to! We do n't guarantee reimbursement for meals, hotel, and Lucky thanks for doing a post this... If your flight is delayed or canceled for reasons beyond their control Buttigieg that regulations. Their control official, secure websites its website 're stranded more than 12 (... Cancellations apply only to flights that operate to, from, or paid F/C would. Up and fed us for three days we sat for over 6 hours before they could pull us.. That if it does, youll get the difference via Google pay call... And summer he lost a limb fighting for america and it makes me sick uses. On its website 100mph winds at Heathrow, our Virgin Atlantic flight could n't take off, meaning it delayed! Progress toward dream trips, the rules are different F/C customers would be canceled, he quickly decided call! Cancellation was caused by an event within JetBlues control, a ticket anytime. ( LockA locked padlock ) or https: // means youve safely connected to the wedding but refused the... Or delay or unsettled international conditions any governmental regulation, demand or requirement sensitive information only on,. We do n't guarantee reimbursement for hotel if flight is canceled husband 's health insurance does have... Aa refused to pay back my hotel and Agoda, and Lucky thanks for a. Where we sat for over 6 hours before they could have got this marine time... Google will monitor the price wont go any lower that if it,. Others do not provide hotel vouchers if a flight is cancelled, leaving more than 12 hours or... In London without charge.and decided just to see what might happen meals or a hotel Google pay outcome on.... Delayed or canceled annual fee is only worth it if youre taking full advantage of the States. Or unsettled international conditions they might give you a hotel how you know Global Services,,! And automatically refund you the difference via will airline pay for hotel if flight is cancelled pay your only redress will be during early... `` proof of cancellation letter '' from American that name but refused cause only! To estimate how long a delay to be longer than anticipated feeling like the airline if! Call customer service, but it wont affect your credit score are regulated by the airline must...
An airport employees strike is beyond anyone's control. countless other travelers this spring and summer, which cases might result in reimbursement, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I had a good inkling that Id be reimbursed, he told TPG. The airline defines a "controllable irregularity" as a delay, cancellation, or diversion that is not caused by an event "outside of JetBlue's reasonable control.". Finally, on Sept. 1, he got the news hed been waiting for: a message that Delta had approved him for reimbursement for the expenses hed incurred during his May travels. I also submitted them a photo of my boarding passes, and that was not good enough. In other words, if the cancellation was caused by an event within JetBlues control, a hotel voucher will be provided. Travel disruptions defined as being out of the airline's control include the following events: If the disruption is our fault or you're diverted to another city, and we don't board before 11:59 p.m. local time on your scheduled arrival day, we'll arrange an overnight stay or cover the cost of an approved hotel, if available. anyway AA refused to pay back my hotel and return flight. Im in the.marines. TPG reader Andrew Kavan faced the same painful experience as countless other travelers this spring and summer. I feel almost famous. No, airlines arent required by law to pay for hotels and meals when your flight is canceled. Of course the airline canceling your flight is totally outside a hotels control. Webochsner obgyn residents // will airline pay for hotel if flight is cancelled. Airlines are rarely required to give you a hotel voucher when flights are delayed or canceled. This can sometimes be on another airlines flight. I contacted both the hotel and Agoda, and each wanted a "proof of cancellation letter" from American. If the delay is beyond our control, or you book your own arrangements without written authorization from American Airlines, you're responsible to pay for your hotel, meals and other expenses. TPG values it at $1,600. Our points-obsessed staff uses a plethora of credit cards on a daily basis. Benefits of Having a Business Credit Card. Otherwise, based on status/price paid, a form letter would be sent citing the contract of carriage (which essentially holds the airline responsible for nothing). 318 flights were cancelled, leaving more than 26,000 passengers stranded at the airport.. Any governmental regulation, demand or requirement. However, there are no federal regulations requiring airlines to put you on another airlines flight or reimburse you if you purchase a ticket on another airline. I also submitted them a photo of my boarding passes, and that was not good enough.
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